How to Marry a German

So Jae isn't here today, but I am joined by two lovely American guests, Chris and Stephanie. Do you want to introduce yourself quickly?

Sure. I'm Stephanie. I've been living in Berlin since January, and I'm an American, married to a German.

I.

And you wrote an email saying, Thanks for the podcast, I want to be on it and explain how that works.

And you wrote an email saying, Thanks for the podcast. I want to be on it. Explain how that works. Yeah, we I love the podcast.

Being married to a German I love podcast. It's been really helpful. And my.

It's been really helpful in my transition here. And I wrote in saying we've experienced visa applications in the U.S.

And I wrote in saying, we've experienced applications in the U.S. and Germany and there was interest. To.

And now in Germany, and it was interesting to compare the two, and I thought I would just share and see if I could help anyone that's going through the same thing. That's awesome.

I'm going to. That's awesome. And then Chris, we work together and I was like, Hold on, Chris, you are also married to a German.

And then, Chris, we worked together and I was like, Hold on, Chris, you are also married to a German.

Would you care to join us? Exactly.

Would you care to join us? Exactly. And yeah, as you said, I'm also married to a German.

Exactly. And yeah, as you said, I'm also married to a German.

And yeah, as you said, I'm also married to a German.

I moved to just outside Berlin in July of 2020. So I've been here a couple of years now. And yeah, I went through like perhaps a similar process and yeah.

I moved to just outside Berlin in July of 2020, so I've been here a couple of years now. And yeah, I went through like perhaps a similar process and. Yeah.

I moved to just outside Berlin in July of 2020, so I've been here a couple of years now. And yeah, I went through like perhaps a similar process and. Yeah.

It's good to be moved into Berlin. And yeah, look, a couple of years still in some ways feel like we're getting settled.

It's a good to be moved into Berlin and.

It's good to be moved into Berlin and. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. You have a couple of years on, I guess. Yeah.

You have a couple years. Couple of years. Still, in some ways feel like we're getting settled, so.

In some ways feel like we're getting settled. Sure, sure. Yeah.

Nice. Before we start trying to explain or before we start talking about the whole marriage thing and how that works and compares to the U.S. and all that.

Before we start trying to explain more, before we start talking about the whole marriage thing and how that works and compares to the US and all that.

You, Stephanie, had some very keen observations in your email and pulling up the email about just things that you are noticing now that you're in Berlin.

You, Stephanie, had some very keen observer. Oh. Oh, boy. About. Just things that you are noticing now that you're in Berlin. Mm hmm. Yeah. I think the first thing I mentioned was, like, fashion or something. Was that I think.

Yeah, I think the first thing I mentioned was. What's that? Possibly. Hold on. Let me look at your email. Fashion. What about fashion?

Or fashion. What about fashion? Well, so I'm from Oklahoma in the U.S., which is very casual, very country.

So I'm from New York, which is very casual, very.

Dressing up as like, jeans and cowboy boots. And I feel like you might see that in Berlin, too, but I don't know.

Dressing up with jeans. Yeah, You might do that in Berlin, too, but I don't know.

I was really struck by the sort of personality that people had when they dressed here.

I was really struck by the sort of.

Here you have, like an all black style and. Crazy fashion use of style. And then we have.

You have like an all black style and then you have maybe like a crazy fashionista style, and then you have like very practical, like, you know, outdoor type gear.

What's very practical. I'm sorry here. I know. It was just interesting to.

And, I don't know, it was just interesting to observe all of that as a coming from a very casual clothing state.

But it's interesting because maybe I, I don't know the exact definition of casual, but my impression was always that Berlin is basically defined as anything goes in terms of fashion.

It's interesting because maybe I don't know the exact definition of casual, but my impression was always that Berlin is basically defined as anything goes in terms of fashion. Hmm. I think, yeah, I could see that. I mean, I think there's certainly things you can wear that might make you maybe fit in a little more like wearing. All right, Berlin, Like, blending in.

Right. Yeah, I can see that. I mean, I think there's certainly things you can wear that might make. But it's like wearing all black. That's the Berlin like blending in stuff.

Exactly. Exactly. So I guess there's a certain thing that you can wear that does make you sort of, like, fit the trends. But I feel like in Berlin, people are always wanting to not fit in the trends. So there's maybe some nuance there. Yeah, definitely. Any observation? Absolutely. I feel the same way. Is is Oklahoma considered part of the Midwest? I'm from Indiana, so this is an ongoing debate.

Yeah, definitely. I feel like this is absolutely I feel the same way. Is is Oklahoma considered part of the Midwest? I'm from Indiana, so like, I feel like Oklahoma is borderline. Yeah, I think.

Yeah, I think Oklahoma is technically the plains or the South. Okay. But yeah.

Okay. But I imagine Oklahoma compared to Indiana is very similar fashion wise. Maybe we're not so fashion forward like any of the coasts. And yeah, I had very similar observations like Berlin feels like it's a place where anything goes. Like anybody can dress however they want. The default might be black. Like if you want to blend in, just wear black. If you want to try to stand out, anything goes like you won't be judged. Like, that's the point.

Yeah, and that's the point. You can you can stand out, but you won't be judged like there are people wearing outfits that in other places in Germany would turn heads where in Berlin, everybody's just like, whatever. Or whatever floats your boat.

You can you can stand out, but you won't be judged Like there are people wearing outfits that in other places in Germany would turn heads where in Berlin, everybody just like whatever or whatever floats your boat.

Right, Right. I feel like, I don't know. My friends in the States make fun of me for being like this. Like typical Midwest guy who wears stuff from, like, Kohl's, like, you know, what's Kohl's is like a really boring.

But I feel like, I don't know. My friends in the States make fun of me for being like this, like typical Midwest guy who wears stuff from, like, Kohl's, like, you know, like, which Kohl's is like a really boring department store.

Aha. Which is like, really, really boring.

Is it the equivalent of c R in Germany? I haven't been there. Maybe.

See, I haven't been there. Maybe you're like Einstein's family. Yeah. Yeah.

I haven't been there. Maybe.

Oh, yeah. That's even more. Yeah. I feel like in a way, in a place where anybody can wear anything, this is the one thing that really stands out.

Oh, yeah, That's even more. Yeah. And I feel like in a way, in a place where anybody can wear anything, this is the one thing that really stands out where you're like, What's this guy?

And like, in a way, in a place where anybody can wear anything. This is the one thing that really stands out where you're like, What? What's this guy?

You're like, What's this guy? Like American dad or something?

Like American dad or something like.

Like American dad or something like that?

Well, you are an American dad, so I think that's fine. Okay, so what's the.

Yeah. Yeah. So what's the.

Bottom line here, have you changed your style of clothing?

Bottom line, I can change your style of clothing. I think I have a little bit. I'll say that I think I'm a little more aware of what I'm wearing.

I think I'm a little more aware. What I'm wearing. Not so much because I.

Not so much because I'm worried that I'll stand out or something, but more.

But more.

It's just kind of interesting here. And so I can experiment with fashion a little more than maybe I would have in the U.S.. It's interesting how to a different face does that. I look back at pictures of me being in the U.S. as an exchange student.

It's interesting how going to a different place does that. I look back at pictures of me being in the U.S. as an exchange student and I was wearing like jeans jackets, which I think the US did to me. Like jeans are such a thing.

I was wearing like jeans, jackets, which I think the U.S. did to me. Like, jeans are such a thing.

And I was just like, Sure. Like jeans, pants, jeans, jacket.

And I was just like, Sure. Like jeans, pants, jeans, jacket, Let's just make it all jeans and that. Now I'm like, Why did I do that?

Let's just make it all jeans. And now I'm like, Why did I do that?

I think technically jeans and the jacket are called a Canadian tuxedo, so maybe that's an anyway. Yeah. Yeah.

He's. Called. Uh. Yeah. Canadian tuxedo. Okay. I found your email. Uh, point number two, How to attend a house party or a gathering? It seems common. Common? Can I read your email on the air?

Okay. I found your email. Point number two How to attend a house party for a gathering. It seems common. Common? Can I read your email? Sure. Yeah. It seems common to greet everybody by shaking their hand, even if it takes a really long time.

It seems common to greet everybody by shaking their hand, even if it takes a really long time bringing something with you.

Bringing something with smoking is fine. Always thinking options, planning many weeks in advance.

Smoking is fine. Always taking off shoes, planning many weeks in advance.

Yeah, that's kind of what I've observed. And so because I'm married to a German, I've been to a lot of family gatherings and such, and, one thing I noticed is everyone really takes the time to greet every single person. I guess I've heard sometimes you can, like, knock on the table or something.

Yes, but that's it's a really good distinction, I think. Yes. Especially at a family gathering or if it's like close friends, you do greet everybody. And depending on the type of relationship, you shake hands or you hug.

Okay. To speed up the process, I guess it's a really good distinction, I think. Yes. Especially at a family gathering or if it's a close friends, you do greet everybody commenting on the type of relationship you shake hands or you hug. Right. Okay.

And the knocking on the table kind of thing is if the group is really big already and they're all seated around the table and it would be kind of hard to reach them all.

And the knocking on the table kind of thing is if the group is really big already and they're all seated around a table and it would be kind of hard to reach them all. And also, you're not that close to them.

And also you're not that close to them, then you can just come in and say, Hello, everybody.

Okay? You can just come in and say, hello, everybody.

But it's definitely like more respectful to greet everybody individually.

But it's definitely like. More respectful to greet. Yeah. Yeah. How it's done in another. It's just.

Is that not how it's done in other places? How do they do it in Indiana?

I mean. Yeah. What's your thoughts?

I mean, it definitely depends on like what type of gathering you're talking about, I think. I mean, even with my family gatherings in the States, it wasn't so formal. Like, I think people notice that you arrive and they're like, okay, he's here.

I mean, even with my family gatherings in the States, it wasn't so formal. Like, I think people noticed that you arrive and they're like, okay, he's here. She's here.

She's here. Like, I'll get around to saying hello at some point, but like, don't need to, like, interrupt things in order to do that.

Like, I'll get around to saying hello at some point, but like, don't need to, like, interrupt things in order to do that.

But the knocking on the table, that's a really efficient like, you know, way of announcing maybe it's more important that you say goodbye.

But they're knocking on the table. That's a really efficient like, you know. Yeah.

Yeah. Very German. Yeah.

Way of announcing. Yeah, I think in the US maybe it's more important that you.

I think in the U.S., maybe it's more important that you say goodbye to everyone. So maybe. Yeah, you just sort of walk into the family reunion and just say, like, Hey, everybody, I'm here. And then when you leave, you make sure that you say goodbye.

Hmm. So maybe. Yeah. In.

So maybe, yeah, you just sort of walk into the family reunion and just say like, Hey, everybody.

Family reunion and.

Here. And then when you leave, you make sure that you stay. That's funny because I feel like it's a little bit the reverse here. I feel like, Oh, you can kind of wave and say, I'm off. See you later.

That's funny because I feel like it's a little bit the reverse here. Like, yeah, you can kind of wave and say, I'm off. See you later. Hmm. Yeah. I feel like we made a joke about this. An easy German. Like, there's, like, you know, it's just like this abrupt, like, zoom calls to.

Yeah, I feel like we made a joke about this. An easy German. Like there's like, you know, it's just like this abrupt, like, zoo and then gone.

Yeah, we made a joke about this in easy German. Like, there's, like, you know, it's just like this abrupt, like zoom. Right? Right. There's the clapping on your knees and saying, like, so if you get on yet that's the German way to leave.

So, yeah, that's the German way to leave.

Get on yet to. To exit.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think. Well what just struck me was.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think. Well, what just struck me was it just took a long time. I think it's very respectful and nice, but I was always like. Man I'm taking.

Yeah. Yeah, I think. Well, what just struck me was it just took a long time. I think it's very respectful and nice, but I was always like, man, we're taking like a few minutes here just to, like, greet everyone.

I think it's very respectful and nice, but I was always.

Mm hmm.

So I wonder, like in like the family gatherings that you talk about, are there other people from other countries or are you kind of the exotic American in the group?

So I wonder, like in, like the family gatherings that you talk about, are there other people from other countries or are you kind of the exotic American in the group? Yeah. So I'm I'm the only American for sure. We do have a Swedish family member that's made her way in as well, but the rest of them are all Germans.

So I'm I'm only American for sure. We do have. I see the family member. Okay, But the rest of them are all. Sure, because I wondered if that played a role when it happened to me as well.

I wondered if that played a role when it happened to me as well. I felt like in a way I was like this different guest and therefore everybody wanted to like.

I felt like in a way I was like this different guest from all the others and therefore everybody wanted to like, I don't know, test my German or see like, you know, like how, how am I in this situation?

I don't know, test my German or see like, you know, like how, how am I in this situation?

And so I was never sure, like maybe I just didn't notice whether that happened to everybody else or I just felt my own experience so strongly. Yeah.

And so I was never sure, like maybe I just didn't notice whether that happened to everybody else or I just felt my own experience. True. Strongly true. You're I tend to observe myself a lot in those family situations. What not wanting to, you know, step on anyone's toes or anything, but also knowing that you are family. So it's okay to, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. So then bringing something with you, you've already demonstrated that. You learned that's how it's done. You've brought some chocolate for us. You're welcome.

So then bringing something with you, you've already demonstrated that You learned that's how it's done. You brought some chocolate for us. Thank you. Um, yeah, I guess it is. I mean, it depends a little bit.

Yeah, I guess it is. I mean, it depends a little bit.

Mhm. Yeah, It is good to bring something with you, but it's a little bit less of a must, I feel. I don't know.

Yeah, it is good to bring something with you, but it's a little bit less of a must. Yeah, sure. Maybe it depends on how close you are with the people. If if, if you plan ahead and say, I'm bringing the wine. You're bringing the cheese then, right? Yeah.

Maybe it depends on how close you are. Yeah. If you plan ahead. I'm here. Right. Yeah, but bringing flowers never hurts. Bringing some food never hurts. Smoking is fine.

Yeah, but bringing flowers never hurts. Bringing. Right. Smoking is fine.

How did that make the list? I feel like smoking is not well.

Smoking is not. Well, smoking is fine outside.

Smoking is fine outside, but I went to a party with some.

Yeah, well, I went to a party with some just like friends acquaintances recently. And I.

Just like friends. Acquaintances. And I think as an American, I'm always kind of.

I think as an American, I'm always kind of like rolling my eyes about smoking.

Rolling my eyes about smoking.

Just. It does kind of bother me. I'm still, like, adjusting to that. But at the party, it was like, no big deal.

It does kind of fall. I'm still adjusting for that. But at the party it was like no big deal.

There was maybe like 15, 20 people at the party and probably like five of them were outside smoking.

There was maybe like 16, 20 people at the party. Probably like five of them. I.

And I think I was outside on the balcony as well, and it was like no big deal just to light it up. And I think I for some reason that shocked me. Yeah. Yeah.

I think I was outside on the balcony as well, and I was like, I really feel like up and I think I. Some reason that. Yeah. Interesting. I think we're like, it's not the case anymore, that it's just fine to smoke inside. I think when I was at college, there were many parties still where people would just smoke inside, and that's definitely changed where now I think everybody who smokes. Goes to the balcony or outside. I don't think there are that many parties anymore where people smoke inside. But outside is fair game. Like outside. Like if you happen to also be on the balcony, like. Yeah, Tough luck. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, fair enough. Yeah. Yeah, I accept it. Yeah, sure.

I mean, I feel the same. I smoke bothers me as well. Like I'm not a smoker, but yeah, I think that's the line basically where outside is fine.

Yeah. I think that's the line basically, where outside is fine. Sure. Yeah.

Wow. Okay. Always taking off your shoes. Big one in Germany, or at least always asking at like. Like because many places. I mean, I ask my guests to take off their shoes. If they don't do it on, I'm going to freak because why would you wear your shoes inside?

Okay. Always taking off your shoes. Big one in Germany. Sure. Or at least always asking. Right? Because many places. I mean, I asked my guests to. If they don't do it, I don't think. Because why would you wear your shoes inside?

It doesn't make any sense. Yeah.

It doesn't make any. Yeah, this is. Do you want to? Yeah. I mean, we take off our shoes all the time and home. I always do it just as a default. Whenever I go anywhere else. It feels weird to me in our office here.

Yeah. I mean, we we take off our shoes all the time and hope I always do it just as a default. Whenever I go anywhere else. It feels weird to me in our office here for easy Germany, right?

I mean, we we take off our shoes all the time at home. I always do it just as a default. Whenever I go anywhere else. It feels weird to me in our office here for easy German, easy languages to leave the shoes on because it's like an apartment. Like it's a nice place. And yeah, to walk around from room to room feels a little odd.

Four easy German, easy languages to leave the shoes on because I thought the same. Like, it's a nice place. And yeah, to walk around from room to room feels a little odd.

Just to leave the shoes on because it's like an apartment. Like it's a nice place. And yeah, to walk around from room to room feels a little odd.

But within like my German family here, like how shoes are a big thing. You take off your shoes and you put on your house shoes. And I can't get used to that. I'm just like, Yeah, I just want to walk around in my socks. Like.

But within like my German family here, like how shoes are a big thing. You take off your shoes and you put on your house shoes and they're provided for you. Yeah, yeah. I just want to walk around in my socks.

But within, like, my German family here, like how shoes are a big thing. You take off your shoes, put on your house shoes. And I can't get used to that. And just like. Yeah. I just want to walk around in my socks, see? But I've never used house shoes in my life.

But I never use houses in my life. But I have.

I but I have. I have like four for the colder months of the year. I have thicker socks that I then wear.

Okay, I have like four for the colder months. Thicker socks.

I have like four for the colder months of the year, had thicker socks.

And sometimes I bring them with me. Like if I go to a party or like a friend and I know we'll be there for a while and it's December, I will have my socks in my backpack and bring them. And it's not the ones that you're already wearing in your shirt. No, no, Those go on top.

And sometimes I bring them with me. Wait, so you'll like a friend?

And sometimes I bring them with me, like if I go to. Yes or like a friend. Yeah, I'll be there for a while and it's December. I will have my socks in my backpack and bring them and that's not. Yeah.

I'll be there for a while. And it's December. I will have my socks in my backpack. And that's not the ones that you're already wearing in your shoes.

You're already wearing in your shoes. No, those go on top. There are specifically for the house I guess for Insight, a funny story is that my husband will bring his house shoes with him on a vacation, even like we recently were on a trip and he stuck those house shoes in the suitcase before we left the house. And I found that funny. And when we were living in the U.S., too, it's not as common to take your shoes off. And so he would ask every single person when he when they came into the apartment to please take their shoes off. And at first I was like, Oh, is it that big of a deal? But it was important to him. And so that's what we did. Yeah.

Okay. And then planning many weeks in advance. That's also very German. I mean, yeah, we just love to put things on our calendars.

Okay. And then planning many weeks in advance. That's also very. I'm sure.

I think it's good, though. It makes you actually follow through so that everybody actually, you know, will be there.

So that makes you. Yeah. And it makes it so that everybody actually, you know, will be there because they knew in advance that.

Right? They knew an event, right?

Yeah. Yeah. I do miss the spontaneity though, because we like we know a lot of our neighbors on our street and we'll see them be like, Hey, maybe we can do something this weekend. And I don't know, it rarely happened. Fully, fully booked already. Exactly. Yeah.

Yeah, right. I do miss the spontaneity, though, because we like Sure, we know a lot of our neighbors on our street and we'll see them be like, hey, maybe we can do something this weekend. And I don't know, it rarely happens.

Yeah, I do miss the spontaneity, though, because we like we know a lot of our neighbors on our street and we'll see them be like, Hey, maybe we can do something this weekend. And I don't know, it rarely happens that it's so spontaneous. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. A few weeks too late for that invite.

Yeah. Yeah. Too late for that invite. Right. Right. Okay.

It's too late for that invite. Yeah. Okay. Uh, next point on your list.

The next point on your list. Formality. I always include gold in front of my name.

Formality. I notice most of the letters I receive in the mail always include Flor in front of my name, and I was often referred to as fraud.

He has often referred to the past foul. Yeah, right.

And then your last name. I don't know if you want to share. Throughout the duration of my meetings at various offices. This feels very formal to me.

Throughout the duration of. It feels very formal to me. I mean, yeah, I mean. In the U.S., I mean, especially like in California and stuff.

I mean, yeah, I mean, in the U.S., I mean, especially in like in California and stuff, everybody's just on a first name basis. Yeah, I think what stuck out to me the most was. Mm hmm.

Yeah, I think what stuck out to me the most was at the doctor's office we went to and it was like the doctor was calling me for any kind of visa appointment we went to.

Like the doctor.

That appointment we went through. Usually it wasn't just a matter of a reasonable time. Two.

And it was kind of repeatedly, it wasn't just the first time they met you. It was every single time they addressed you. It was kind of sweet. It felt very kind and respectful, but it kind of struck me, strike me a little bit. Just you can just call me Stephanie.

That's kind of sweet. It's all very kind. And. But.

Yeah, the whole do versus Z topic. We debated it on Easy German or tried to explain it on Easy German and there are some general rules and.

Yeah. Versus the topic. We debated it on Easy German or Tragic. Oh, yeah.

Kind of guidelines, but very often it's such a you just feel it, thing you know like I interview people on the street and I make the decision like I don't even think about how will I address this person. It just somehow do feels right and safe or not. And it has to do with age, of course, but also with like attire. And general, I don't know, like, do you feel like that person wants the formal, more respectful ZE Or virtual?

I find this topic actually easier, like out in the public than I do in the family situations. Because like in public, I can more easily default to like Z when I'm in doubt. But when like my mother in law has like all of her older friends around and they're like long time family friends, and my wife has used DU for, decades, and then I'm suddenly thrown in this mix with these older, very formal people. It feels so awkward for me to like, use do like I feel like I just got jumped into this do situation that would otherwise very easily be a Z.

Now. I've definitely been there where? Like, for example.

Now, I've definitely been there where like for example.

As a teenager, I was around my friends parents all the time, but they never really addressed like they like I never really addressed them at all.

As a teenager, I was around my friends parents all the time. But they never really addressed like like I never really addressed them at all. But there was a point where I needed to address them.

But then there was a point where I needed to address them and it very much felt like due should be okay since we've spent so much time together, but they've never really offered it.

And it very much felt like we should be okay since we've spent so much time together. But they've never really offered it.

But Zie would also seem weird all of a sudden and so you kind of try to not even address them at all. Which is really.

But Z would also seem weird, and so you kind of try to not even address them at all. I'm glad you I'm glad you say this, because I do this all the time where I'm like, how can I formulate this to avoid like, any pronoun at all? Like.

I'm glad you say this because I do this all the time. I'm not going to formulate this to avoid like pronoun at all. Like, right. Is it okay to.

Interesting. Is it okay to just straight up ask or or what you could do in most situations is just do the Z, because that faux pas like calling someone Z, like it happens with change all the time, for example.

I think asking is okay, or what you could do in most situations is just do the Z, because that faux pas like calling someone Z, like it happens with Jansch all the time, for example, that we meet people who follow our work and stuff and they address him as Z and he immediately protests and says, Please stop, and then it's fine, right?

Then we need people who follow our work and stuff and they address them as Z. And he immediately protests and says, Please, okay. And then it's fine. Right? Right. Explicit permission. And maybe that feels a little weird in some situations, but it's so much better than addressing someone with dude.

Then you have the explicit permission and maybe that feels a little weird in some situations, but it's so much better than addressing someone with do. There's all these stories where someone addresses someone's mom or grandma or whatever is do, and then that person doesn't forgive them for like the next ten years, right?

There's all these stories where someone addresses someone's mom or grandma or whatever is due, and then that person doesn't forgive them for like the next ten years.

Like you, I don't think it happens that often anymore, especially if you're a foreigner. I think people give a lot more leeway. But I would just if like if you're not sure, just almost.

Like, Oh dear, I don't think it happens that often anymore, especially if you're a foreigner. I think people give a lot more leeway. But I would just if like if you're not sure, just almost.

Aggressively or proactively address them as zie to kind of trigger that.

Aggressively or proactively address them at Z to kind of trigger that. No, no, please. iPhone or whatever.

No, no, please call me Heiko or whatever, and then you're fine.

Okay. Good tip. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And then the last point before we get to our main topic on your list is the difference between an expat and an immigrant. And this is a great I love that you pointed that out because there isn't really there's no difference.

Okay. And then the last point before we get to our main point, the topic on your list is the difference between an X. There's is a great Oh yeah, you point that out because there isn't really. It's there's no difference. It's just that maybe there's like a difference in privilege, but.

It's just that maybe there's like a difference in privilege. But yeah, it's. There's no.

Right. Yeah, it's. There's no both immigrants. Yeah, go ahead.

You're both immigrants. Yeah. Right.

We were talking about this actually on one of our recent video shoots with the I think with the summer school participants here for the Easy German Summer School.

Actually, on one of our recent video shoots with the I think with the summer school participants, he. Easy German summer school and there were people from a lot of different.

And there were people from a lot of different countries, and I think there was a magazine that somebody saw it called Ex Berliner. Is that a magazine?

And I think there was a magazine that somebody saw it called Ex Berliner. Is that a magazine?

And I think it's like an expat magazine for expats living in Berlin. Like it's not people who left Berlin, it's a Berlin magazine.

And I think it's like an expat magazine for expats living in Berlin, like people who left Berlin. It's a Berlin magazine.

From what we I don't know from what we guessed as we looked at this, but it's brought up the debate like, what is an expat and what's an immigrant?

From what we don't know what we guessed as we looked at it, but it's brought up the debate. What is an expat and what's an immigrant? And we kind of came to that same conclusion that it sounds almost like.

And we kind of came to that same conclusion that it sounds almost like a privilege thing.

A privilege thing. Totally get based on like, I don't know, probably like.

Like what label do you get based on like, I don't know, probably like skin color, like, yeah, like Americans and Canadians are expats, but if you come from Syria, you're an immigrant.

Your skin color or your country of origin. Yeah. Yeah.

Skin color like, yeah, like Americans and Canadians are expats, but. Right.

Americans and Canadians are expats, but if you come from Syria, you're an immigrant.

From Syria you're an immigrant like it's it seems like an unfair like arbitrary label and expat. I don't know. It sounds like I have more control, I have more power. I chose to do this. I wasn't exactly.

Like it's, it seems like an unfair, like arbitrary label and expat.

Like it's it seems like an unfair, like, arbitrary label and expat. I don't know. It sounds like I have more control, I have more power. I chose to do this. I wasn't, you know, versus immigrant has kind of the connotation that you did it because you were.

I don't know. It sounds like I have more control, I have more power. I chose to do this. I wasn't, you know, versus immigrant has kind of the connotation that you did it because you were.

Versus immigrant has kind of the connotation that you did it because you were. Unhappy at the place you were before. So you emigrated or you emigrated to Germany to.

Unhappy at the place you were before Wright emigrated or immigrated to Germany to to seek a better life.

Unhappy at the place you were before? Yeah. Emigrated or emigrated to Germany to.

To seek a better life, which is the same thing an expat is doing. But I guess, yeah, an expat is like, Oh, if I go back, it won't be too bad either. Like, I don't know.

To seek a better life. Yeah. The same thing an expat is doing. Both, I guess.

Which is the same thing an expat is doing. But I guess, yeah, an expat is like, Oh, if I go back, it won't be too bad either.

Yeah. An expat is like, Oh, if I go back, it won't be to that either. Like, I don't know.

Right. Well, and if you expat means expatriate, right.

X. X. Right. So it means the same thing as immigrant like you permanently.

So it means the same thing as immigrant. Like you've permanently sort of Xed out your your, your past I guess patriotism.

Text out your past. I don't know how to describe it, but I think sometimes people say expat means, well, you're going to go back.

I don't know how to describe that, but I think sometimes people say expat means, well, you're going to go back or something. But I think expat actually means no. Like you've decided to officially leave.

But I think that actually means no. You've decided. Mr.. Yeah. I don't know. This is just my initial feeling when I heard the term years ago was that it was a little bit more official, like.

Yeah, I don't know. This is just my initial feeling when I heard the term years ago was that it was a little bit more official. Right.

And that made me wonder, too, if there was, like, something you had to do officially to get that label. Like, did you have to get rid of your, like, citizenship or take on something else? Like, I don't.

And that made me wonder to if there was like, something you had to do officially to get that label. Like, did you have to get rid of your citizenship? Right. It's just the authority that gives you a title.

I don't think there is enough like an authority that gives you a title. I don't have that feeling anymore either. But that was like you hear this term like.

Gives you a title. I don't have that feeling anymore either. But that was like you hear this term like ex-patriot like ex. It's that's in the past.

I don't have that feeling anymore either. But that was like, yeah, you hear this term like x. Like x, it's that's a pass, right? Right.

That's in the past. Mm hmm. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Maybe the connotation isn't necessarily that you'll stay forever, but that you're not just doing a year abroad or something, Right? You moved here, you moved your life here, and now you're here.

I think maybe the connotation isn't necessarily that you'll stay forever, but that you're not just doing a year abroad or something. Like you moved here, you moved your life here, and now you're here. And maybe someday you'll go back. But you don't have any plans currently. But immigrant.

Maybe someday you'll go back. But you don't have any plans, right? Right. But immigrant.

It was essentially the same. It's just that.

It is essentially the same. Right. You go to the immigration office to get your visa.

Right. So what's what what are we learning? Like, what's basically should we just try to not use the word expert or use it for everybody? Like what's I don't know. How can we make this situation better?

Right. So. Yeah. So what are we learning? Like, what's basically so we just try to not use the word expat or use it for everybody. Like what's I don't know. How can we make the situation better? I think that would help. Maybe just making the word immigrant.

I think that would help. Maybe just make the word emigrate.

The default word. Yeah. Yeah. Because it's not a dirty word.

Yeah. Yeah. Cause it's not a dirty word like immigration has been around since humans have been around. And I think there some negative connotations because of racism and things like that.

Right. Immigration has been around since humans have been around. And I think there are some negative connotations because of racism and things like that.

But immigration is great. Like people move, and that's wonderful. And of course, there's problems to be solved, like with anything but like immigration. Yeah.

But immigration is great. Like people move. Yeah, that's wonderful. And yeah, of course there's problems to be solved, like with anything but like. Immigration. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I suppose in like the media or news, the term immigration gets thrown a lot, thrown around a lot and maybe a negative connotation as well.

I suppose, unlike the media or news. The term immigration external thrown around a lot in. Well. Mm hmm. So maybe that's where. Right.

Political politics and such. So maybe that's where some of that negative connotation comes from as well. But. Yeah. Okay. I'm going to write to these people that make expert dinner or invite them on the show and lobby for them to change their name to.

Okay, I'm going to write to these people that make ex Berliner Berlin in English since 2000 to invite them on the show and lobby for them to change their name to Im Berliner.

In Berlin. In Berlin. Berlin? No. Okay.

Okay. I like all of these observations. Anything else that either of you found?

Okay. I like all of these observations. Anything else that either of you found?

Interesting or weird. Moving to Berlin or Germany.

Interesting or we're moving to.

So many things, but this is like a whole culture shock episode then.

So many things. Yeah. This is like a whole culture of Shots episode then, right?

So many things, but this is like a culture shock episode then. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, those, those were my kind of main observations, I guess.

I mean, those. Those were my. You know.

Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. So then let's talk about the main topic, which is. The difference or I guess, like being married to someone. From Germany. And then what that means for your visa situation and how it's different in the U.S. since you're both from the U.S.. I mean, I'm sure this topic is kind of irrelevant for many people, but also very relevant for some people. And. Share what it was like for you.

So. Okay, So my husband and I were married in 2018 in the U.S. and so at that time he was there on a student visa, and the student visa was expiring. And so we needed to take another step to continue living in the US. So we applied for a green card, which is there's really no kind of in-between there between a, student visa, there is like a fiance visa, there's like a TV show, maybe 90 day fiance anyway, but that didn't apply to us. We were already married and the green card process is pretty complicated. There's like a number of forms. I had to be like a sponsor for my husband and fill out a form. Let me check my notes here. And. So there were two main forms that we had to complete. They were about ten pages each and the first form. We had to pay 535 USD for the for this form to be processed. And then the second form was 1225 U.S. dollars. So in total that's about 1700 dollars. So that was after you already got married, right?

So that was after you already got married, which also cost money. And this was basically to ask the state, now that you're married to have a green card, i.e.

Also cost money. Right. And this was basically to ask the state now that you're married to have a green card. I.D. a visa. Right. Right. So essentially, he was adjusting his status from student visa to permanent residence resident in the US.

A visa for your husband. Right. So essentially he was adjusting his status from student visa to.

Right. So in addition to these forms, we also had to go. Right.

And so in addition to these forms, we also he had to go drive about 2 hours, each way to do a biometric appointment where essentially he drove 2 hours and scanned his thumb and then drove 2 hours back.

Hmm. He drove 2 hours and. And then drove. All, all, all ten fingers. And they keep those records for ever. I think even if you're just visiting as a tourist, the U.S. takes all ten fingers and saves them for 20 years. Even if you just have a layover in the U.S., I think, or depends a little bit if you need a visa. Yeah.

If you have to go through the. Yeah. Yeah, it's great. All right. So the cost that you just mentioned was that just the form submission cost? And did you use an attorney or did you do it all yourself because.

Huh? Yeah. I wonder what that archive is like. I have a. So the cost that you just mentioned. Yeah, just the form submission cost. And did you use an attorney or did you do so? Yeah. We decided not to get an attorney, which was. It's just also a risk. We had some friends that did and probably paid at least $3,000 for the attorney. It can easily add up. So we took the risk. We're like, we're smart people. We can figure this out.

And so, yeah, so we paid that, sent the forms. He had to drive twice for biometric appointment and then they send you and a appointment for an interview, which is essentially to prove that you're in love, that you're married. And we had to compile a lot of evidence. So proof that we live together photos and, just like bank statements, how we made money, a bunch of things, and then we had to drive 3 hours to that appointment and we waited a while. And then you go into this office and it's very scary. You know, if you've ever traveled to the U.S. through U.S. Customs, it's it's a different feeling. You know, the the agents are always a little bit more intense. So it was like that The guy asked us, like, so how did you meet and where did you go on your honeymoon and how did you get to your honeymoon? And we kind of like had to answer all these very personal, private questions and.

Yeah. And so it was very nerve wracking. And we actually had a hiccup because we had traveled during the time between mailing in our forms and, the interview, and we were worried that that would have messed up the whole thing and we would have had to start all over and pay all over again. Thankfully, they figured it out and he got the green card, but it took about. I don't know. Five months, five months from the interview to get the card. So, yeah, I mean, before you tell us how how much easier all of this is in Germany.

I mean, before you tell us how how much easier all of this is in Germany, this whole process of proving that it is not a fake marriage and that you're actually in love or whatever.

This whole process of proving that it is not a fake marriage and that you're actually in love or whatever. Hmm.

Germany also does that, except it's done at the point where you marry, like once you're married, you're married, no questions asked.

Germany also does that, except it's done at the point where you marry. Like once you're married, you're married, no questions asked.

It's on paper, it's official. But marriage, like a marriage between two Germans, is just a matter of getting an appointment. But if a German wants to marry a non-German.

It's on paper, it's official. But marriage, like a marriage between two Germans, is just a matter of getting an appointment. But if a German wants to marry a non-German. For a non EU citizen. I guess they make you do the same thing in Germany. Okay.

Or non EU citizen. I guess they make you do the same thing in Germany and other EU countries.

EU countries it's much easier, like in Denmark, but in Germany also depends on the city a little bit, I think.

It's much easier like in Denmark, but in Germany also depends on the city a little bit, I think. But they will also ask for documentation of your relationship, photos, things like that. And so you essentially have to prove that you're in love, even though between Germans you can marry for tax reasons and it's fine.

But they will also ask for documentation of your relationship, photos, things like that. And so you essentially have to prove that you're in love, even though between Germans you can marry for tax reasons and it's fine. Okay. Interesting. That is interesting because then, you know, both of our situation is we got married in the States, right?

That is interesting because then, yeah, both of our situation is we got married in the States, right?

That is interesting because then, yeah, both of our situation is we got married in the States, right?

We were married in the States. Yeah, I was too. In there. It's, you know, we have drive thrus where you can get that done and nobody's checking anything.

Yeah, in the States. Yeah, I was too. In there. It's you know, we have drive thrus where you can get that, right? Yeah. You're married, right?

Yeah, I was doing, you know, we had a drive thrus where you. Right. Once you're married, you're married so you can get married. And then, well, if you marry outside of the EU, you then still have to get that marriage approved somehow in Germany, I think.

You can't get married. And then, well, if you marry outside of the EU, that's what I mean.

And then, well, if you marry outside of the EU, that's what I mean. You then still have to get that marriage approved somehow in Germany I think. Yeah.

Yeah. You still have to get that marriage approved somehow in Germany I think. Yeah, but so that reminds me kind of maybe this transition's a little one thing we were required to have.

So that reminds me kind of maybe this transition's a little. One thing we were required to have was an app. Still, did you have to have this for your marriage certificate?

Mm hmm. Did you have for your marriage? I remember. I don't I don't remember the details and I don't remember that word in particular. But we did have to do for basically every important life document we had in the States. We had to get it, you know, officially recognized here and translated like we have two daughters.

Right. Okay. Certificates, you know. Right.

We got their birth certificates, you know, officially documented here, our marriage license certificate as well. So maybe that's this process. And I just don't remember the name.

Officially documented here. Our marriage license certificate as well. So maybe that's this process and I just don't remember the name. Yeah, Yeah, that was so maybe I'll transition now to talk about our German experience. So probably the most difficult thing, like with anything is getting an appointment at the Outlander beholder. Yes. So as soon as I knew that we were moving here, I started looking for appointments every day.

Wait. Why did you have to do this? Isn't that normally the role of the German spouse dealing dealing with the appointments?

Why you have to do this? Isn't that normally the role of the German spouse? I don't know. I just dove right in. I wanted to do it. I guess maybe I should have had them do it then. I wouldn't worry about it. But anyway, I looked into it. I was kind of interested because we had all this stuff in the US to do and I was like, It's going to be easier in Germany. So anyway, so we I got an appointment just on a random day. And as a U.S. citizen, you can enter Germany for three months, no problem. So the appointment was within those three months and we had to have an I.M. Dong. So our registration, I had to have an A-1 German level certificate and our marriage certificate, and then the APA still to sort of prove that your marriage certificate was right, and then your passport photos, your spouse has to come with you. And then ours was €120.

So I will say the first time we went. We the first time we went, we I didn't have some of the right information. I didn't have the app, so I had filled out a wrong form. I got my A1 certificate that morning on the train to the to the office as well as stressful. And I was very worried because I grew grew up in the U.S. and all of the sort of, you know, agents, immigration officers were very strict and mean. And I was like, oh my gosh, we have the wrong form. I'm going to be deported or something like. I was really I was really concerned, you know, I was like, I messed up. I don't have the right stuff. And I'm almost here three months and and the agent, at least to me I've heard some people don't have good experiences was very kind. It's like, oh, it's no big deal. Let me print off the correct form for you and let me reschedule you an appointment. And he explained what the Apostol was and he was like, Next time, just bring these two things and you'll be good to go.

Oh, my God, It's so great to hear a positive story of the neighborhood.

Oh my God, It's so great to hear a positive story. Yeah, obviously there are. Yeah, everywhere. Yeah.

Obviously, there are good people everywhere and you got lucky. And I think I mean, the bad experience is also maybe they're not even the majority. Maybe they just stick out like a sore thumb, you know, where they're so terrible and you feel so sorry. But that's great. You actually experienced service.

Yeah. And then. Oh.

Your husband is protesting.

What do you want to share? I just add one thing, Especially the ones that. Oh, yeah. So because I had the wrong information, they still gave me a temporary kind of ID visa.

Oh, yeah. So because I have the wrong information, they still gave me a temper. I.

Fiction's the shiny gunk.

Wow. So basically, you didn't leave empty, empty handed.

Yeah. So you didn't leave empty him empty handed? They were like, Correct.

They were like, well, you didn't get the right thing, but you're here and we can tell that you are trying. So here's something temporary, right?

You didn't get the right thing, but you're here, and we can tell that you you're trying. So he is something temporary, right? And that I could even travel with that as well if I needed to. We didn't. But yeah, so that was good. And then the second appointment came around.

Not even. Wow. Yeah. So that was good. And then the second appointment came around.

We had everything ready to go. We had a different agent, but he was also very kind.

We had everything ready to go. We had a different agent. He was also very high. Um, he even spoke a bit of English.

He even spoke a bit of English to me.

Hello. Welcome to Germany.

Hello? Yeah. And yeah, it was I had an OC experience, and it was very it was a lot cheaper, I will say so €120 for the actual visa. But then we did have to pay for the APA, still the translations. And then I took a good institute exam which was about €120. So in total. Oh, and I also took a good to institute class, which was very expensive. So according to my calculations in Germany with class translations, ET Cetera is about €720.

But if you already spoke German, you just needed to take a quick test and you, for some reason have a marriage certificate that's already certified or has that plus still €120.

But if you already spoke German, you just needed to take a quick test. Exactly. And you, for some reason, have a marriage certificate that's already. Certified, right? Right. Under €20. The most difficult part is getting the apartment right? Definitely. And then they mail you a plastic card, and then now you're retired. And now I'm free.

The most difficult part is getting the appointment, and then they mail you a plastic card and then now you're a resident. And so basically with that oftentimes detail that you have now, you can't vote.

So with that, oftentimes due to that, you have now you can't vote. Right. And what else can you do?

And what else can you do?

So I've heard conflicting things. Some people have told me I can sign.

So I've heard conflicting things. Some people have told me I can sign.

What do you call it like? What's it called, like climate neutral forms or like if people come up to you and they're like, we want to support.

Felt like a neutral form. Or like if people come to you. Oh, yeah. Like when they're gathering.

Oh, yeah. Like when they're gathering signatures.

When they're gathering signatures. Signatures? Yeah, I've heard conflicting things. Maybe it depends on the kind of petition. Like petition?

Oh, yeah. Yeah. No, I don't think you can. Or maybe you can. Maybe it depends on the kind of petition. Like some things. You just have to be like a resident of the city. And some things you have to be a German citizen, right? Yeah.

Yeah. A resident of the city and some things have to be. Right. So I've signed some of those things and they check them.

But I find similar things. And they check them. They check them. You can sign them because they actually like the reason you have to put the address and everything is because someone actually types in every single address and checks if every if every vote is eligible. Yeah.

They check, okay, you can sign them because they actually like the reason you have to put the address and everything is because someone actually types in every single address and checks. Wow. Okay. Every if every vote is okay. Yeah. So. But I can work. I can travel, study.

So but I can work. I can travel. And is there because in the U.S., when you get a green card, at least the green card lottery, which is another thing, but where you can essentially win a green card, it's like it's indefinite unless you leave for like longer than six months at a time. Is there something like that for you as well? No. You can probably take off for two years and then come back and you.

With the Alvin Hall title. That's a good question. If like I mean, you have to be registered here.

Yeah, that's a good question. It's like, I mean, you have to be registered here, so maybe it's connected to like a registration requirements.

So maybe it's connected to like a registration requirement. Like if you don't live in Germany for more than six months out of a year, are you automatically have to reapply for that title or it's invalid.

Like if you don't live in Germany for more than six months out of a year, are you automatically what you then have to reapply for that title or is it still valid?

Perhaps. I know mine expires in three years, so perhaps, Yeah, three years.

I know mine. Expires in three.

Prior years. And then but then you get an indefinite one. I think after three years you can go back and then you get one that never expires. Right? Right, Right.

And then. But then you get an indefinite one. Yeah. After three years, you can go back and then you get one that never expires. Right, right, right.

You can go back and then you get one that never expires. Right? I think so. But my understanding is that does like once you get that indefinite one, if you decide to move back to the states and you deregister here, then it goes away. Oh, right.

But my understanding is that does like once you get that indefinite one, if you decide to move back to the states and you de-register here, then it goes away like, yeah, you don't it's not like you now have this card for life.

But my understanding is that does like once you get that indefinite one, if you decide to move back to the states and you deregister here, then it goes away. Oh, really?

You know, it's not like you now have this card for life. I think it is connected to the being registered here.

It's not like you now have this card for life. I think it is connected to B actually being here.

I think it is connected to being registered here. Yeah.

Yeah, that makes sense, I guess. Yeah, because, yeah, my husband did end up giving up his green card in order for us to move here.

Yeah, because, yeah, my husband did end up giving up his.

Yeah, because, yeah, my husband did end up giving up.

And so perhaps you can't be dual registered in U.S. and Germany, like so many.

Right. Perhaps you can't.

So perhaps you can't.

Yeah. It's like so many so many laws, specifically tax laws ask like, where is your residence? And that's usually often defined as like six months in a day. Like where do you spend your year?

Yeah. Like so many so many laws, specifically tax laws ask like, where is your residence? And then.

So many laws, specifically tax laws. Right. Where is your residence? And that's usually often defined as like six months in a day. Like where do you spend your year for the most part? Right. Yeah. Taxes.

Right. Often defined as like six months in a day. Like, where do you spend your year? Mm hmm.

For the most part, yeah.

For the most part. Right. Yeah. METAXAS So, Chris, was the experience the same for you?

So Chris, was the experience the same for you? Yeah, similar in a lot of ways, but also a couple of differences that I noticed. So on the US side, I was I would have been too terrified to try to do those forms by myself like you guys did because it is complex and you have this like fear that like, okay, this, this form costs 500, this form costs 1200 and you might just get back some really, like non-specific.

You don't qualify. Try again And you're like, great, I'll I'll apply again with another 1200 dollars. But we were lucky because my wife was. Already in the States for work. And so her company had sponsored her work visa and that could last up to three years. I think it's like initially two years plus it can get extended. So in that time where she was there, we met and we got married towards the end of that three year visa work visa that she had. And then. Her company could have sponsored her further in a way somehow to like, get like a permanent resident status, not just the work visa, but they were like, Oh, now she's married. Like, this is an even easier avenue. So their law firm was like, We'll do this for you. Like, we're excited. And so they were saving money. And then we saved money because we had attorneys doing it for us that we didn't have to pay for. But we got this kind of explanation letter from H.R. that was like the value you received of getting this done is like it wasn't taxable that I know of. But they but it was basically this depreciation schedule like we we gave you, like I think it was like 3000 something worth of services. And as the years go by and my wife works at that job, that gets reduced. So if she quit the next day, we would have to pay them that amount.

Full amount. Only if you stay at the company year it was reduced.

If she stayed another year, it was reduced and and she ended up staying long enough that it was completely reduced.

Yeah. Yeah. She ended up staying long enough that it was completely reduced. I had a relocation allowance like that once where it's like, Yeah, yeah, we'll pay like €7,000 for your relocation. But if you quit on us the day after, you'll have to pay it back. If you quit six months after, you have to pay 25% back a year after 50. And like only if you stay for another two years, you get to fully keep that relocation allowance. Yeah. Smart. Smart companies are smart. Yeah. So that was that was a really nice experience for us. But yeah, all these appointments with the interview, like, I mean, we had just this binder filled with, like, photos of us in the U.S..

Yeah. So that was that was really nice experience for us. But yeah, all these appointments with the interview, like, I mean, we had just this binder filled with like photos of us. I mean, we had yeah, we had a kid already together, we had a house together like we had. I mean, there's no reason to be nervous, but you're still nervous in these situations.

Yeah, we had a kid already together. We had a house together. Yeah, we had. I mean, there's no reason to be nervous, but you're still nervous. Do you believe me? We're in love. We never fight. We promise.

It's like, Yeah, we never fight. We yeah, and.

Yeah, we practiced for the interview. I don't know if you did. We watched YouTube videos and we're like, Sometimes it's okay if you answer a question wrong, because it just means that you're like, chill and relax. And it's like you didn't memorize your answers or.

We watch YouTube videos sometimes. It's okay if you question wrong because it just means that you're.

Video. It's okay if you answer a question wrong, because it just means that you're like. So I'm relaxed. It's like you didn't memorize.

To relax, and it's like you didn't memorize your answer. Yeah, Yeah, that makes sense. I think that's my diff. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, my God. I think that's my. It's so degrading. I don't know.

Yeah, it is a totally different experience than the the German side for sure. And like, so yeah, we had everything translated. Yeah.

Different experience than the German side, for sure. And, like, so, yeah, we had everything. But. But I just want to reiterate reiterate. I think Germany does the same thing. They just do it when you marry, not when you get the visa.

Same thing. They just do it when you marry, you know. Yeah. It's weird that we somehow skipped this.

So skip this. I feel like I skipped this process, but I think there's some.

I feel like I skipped this process Somehow. I skipped this check. Yeah.

Yeah. Loophole. No, I think it has something to do with like, you know, how the U.S. is all about liberty and stuff and like, the state can't interfere with the process of getting married.

Yeah, I got.

Like, there's the whole point of you go to Las Vegas and you marry. And like, it would be very un-American if someone is there asking you to prove your love. So America only does it once it gets real and you want to stay. Whereas in Germany, no, like everything in order. Like before we even let you marry, you prove to us that you're in love unless you're German. Then you can marry for any reason. But if you want to marry an immigrant or ex-pat, prove your love first.

Yeah. Makes sense. Yeah. Um.

Um. Yeah, On the U.S. side, I think everything else sounded pretty similar.

Yeah. On the US side, I think everything else sounded pretty similar. Okay.

But then the way that we moved to Germany was we flew over first.

But then the way that we moved to Germany was we flew over first. Actually, the reason we came was my father in law had a bad diagnosis of.

Actually, the reason we came was my father in law had a bad diagnosis of cancer, so we were like on a flight right away, landed here, and we knew we were going to stay.

Cancer. So we were like on a flight right away, landed here and we knew we were going to stay. We had talked about moving to Germany for a while and this was just like the thing that made it happen right away.

We had talked about moving to Germany for a while and this was just like the thing that made it happen right away. And so I was basically here just on the three months, but zero planning from stateside as far as like looking at appointments or anything. So we landed here, got registered and.

And so I was basically here just on the three months, but zero planning from stateside. Yeah, looking at appointments or anything. So we landed here, got registered and. Yeah, I knew I had to do this.

Yeah. Knew I had to do this. You know, ÖSTLUND had an appointment, so got that on the calendar.

You know, ÖSTLUND had an appointment, so got that on the calendar.

And that process was like the easiest like experience ever we had.

And that process was like the easiest, like, experience ever. We had I don't I don't even remember having much of a problem getting an appointment, but I live outside of Berlin. Technically, I'm like on the board.

I don't I don't even remember having much of a problem getting an appointment, but I live outside of Berlin. Technically, I'm like on the border. And so I had to go way far away to Vada, which is on the other side of Potsdam. Yes, it's yeah, it's Brandenburg. So it's not that many foreigners there. So.

I had to go way far away to Vada, which is on the other side of Potsdam. Yes, it's funny.

Yeah. So it's Brandenburg? Yeah. Yeah. Not that many foreigners there. So I also never heard it's just twiddling their thumbs.

Yeah. Brandenburg So not that many foreigners there. So. And also never heard us just twiddling their thumbs. Yeah.

And yeah, we have much.

Oh, finally we have someone Who.

Oh, yeah. Come right in.

Exactly. And yeah, I remember the you know, I was nervous like thinking, oh, I got to really be on my, on top of my Deutsch game today, like, and my wife was there to help of course.

Yeah, I remember the. You know, I was nervous, like. How about my Deutsche Dame today? Right. And my wife was there to help, of course.

But yeah, we had a form that we had filled out and had to fill out some more things. I don't know if we didn't have. It's kind of a similar situation.

But yeah, we had a form that we had filled out and had to fill out some more things. I don't know if we didn't have kind of a similar situation, like maybe it was the wrong form, but we needed to fill something out. But the lady was just super nice. Like she just seemed like.

Maybe it was the wrong form, but we needed to fill something out. But the lady was just super nice. Like she just seemed like. Like her mood switched when we walked in, which I feel also could be like a very unfair treatment in this because like there were people there were other people waiting for appointments that might have been labeled immigrants.

Like her mood switched when we walked in, which I feel also could be like a very unfair treatment in this because like there were people there were other people waiting for appointments that might have been labeled immigrants.

And then here comes an expat into the office and like, she just like, lit up and was so like, happy and easygoing and it was like, fill out this form. But you can do it like, I don't know, take your time, like and then like €100 and mine was €100.

And here comes the next expat into the office. And she's like, she just like lit up and was so like. Happy and easygoing, and it was like, Oh, this form, but you can do it. Like, I don't know, take the time, like and then like hundred euros I might raise €100. Know, maybe they've increased it. There's a discount for Brandenburg.

Maybe they've increased it in, in the meantime.

Brandenburg discount. Yeah. And yeah. So just, it just felt like the total opposite of the US experience. It was like one form.

Yeah. And yeah. So just, it just felt like the total opposite of the U.S. experience. It was like one form. We had our, like binder full of translated documents that we didn't need whatsoever. And then €100 done. Yeah, that's interesting.

We had our like binder full of translated documents that we didn't need whatsoever. €100. Yeah, that's interesting. I think it's a good point to point out that we're both Americans and walked in and.

That's interesting. I think it's a good point to point out that we're both Americans and walked in and like, I don't know, I had a university background.

I think it's a good point to point out that we're both Americans and walk to.

I don't know. I have a university background. I don't know if you do as well, but I think. Yeah, I think maybe.

I don't know. I have a university background. I don't know if you do as well, but I think. Yeah, I think maybe.

I don't know if you do as well. But I think I think maybe that definitely impacted my experience for sure.

That definitely impacted my.

That definitely affected.

And I yeah, I also didn't have to have I don't have a certificate for really, so I don't know.

Yeah, for sure. I also didn't have to have I don't have a certificate for my German, so I don't know.

Yeah. I also didn't have to have I don't have a certificate for my German, so I don't know.

Well, I've heard that if you can converse with the agent without a problem, then they will be okay with it.

Well, I've heard that and conversed with.

Well, I've heard that if you can converse with the agent without a problem, then okay.

Right, because a one is such a low bar that like having to prove that is almost pretty fresh in my mind when I was like.

Because A1 is such a low bar that.

Yeah. Yeah. That is almost.

Yeah. Having to prove that is all.

And I was pretty fresh to my German learning when we moved here, so I was like, sign me up for immersive, good to institute class and let me take this test. And it would be stressful. Yeah.

And I was pretty fresh in my German learning when we moved. Okay, like, that class, let me take this test. That would be stressful.

That. Yeah, that would be stressful. Yeah.

Yeah. With, like, that kind of appointment as your goal. Like, this is my test. Yeah.

Like that kind of appointment as your goal. Like, yeah, that's my test. Yeah, right. And it was interesting too.

Like appointment as your goal. Like. Yeah, right. And it was interesting too.

My appointment was around March.

My appointment was around March and so that was pretty recent after the Ukraine war and such.

So that was pretty. Or so they just started kind of. Having systems in place.

And so they had just started kind of having systems in place, I think, for Ukrainian refugees.

You know, that was kind of interesting to observe who else was in the.

And so that was kind of interesting to observe who else was in the the waiting room with me. And I think there are definitely different, right?

That's right. Yeah. The process is definitely, definitely different if you come under different circumstances.

Right? Sure.